Monday, May 19, 2014

Vanessinha, she wasn't looking at you, she was looking at Clara

All Things Clarina New Twitter!

So what’s up with Vanessa these days? That’s what I’ve been asking myself anyhow, cause she’s… different. She used to come back with witty remarks that hit the spot, usually was the voice of raw and brutal honesty that told the things that nobody wanted to say. I liked Vanessa, but as she got more and more bitter, acted weird, did sneaky things, I suddenly realized somewhere last week, that I didn’t know if I liked her anymore. It bugged me. I wanted to like her but I didn’t like what she was doing. I also couldn’t figure out the path that the show had in mind for her. I had some questions.

Earlier this week, on Monday, Marina and Vanessa had a fall out, then they made up again, Marina couldn’t buy a book, Vanessa and Marina talked, they hugged, Vanessa remembered a beach with Marina, after which Marina dove in the pool cause she was scared she would end up sleeping under a bridge.

As always, people were wonderfully divided about Vanessa. She’s being a bitch to Clara, some say she is just jealous and should lay off, others say they understand. Some people say Vanessa is right to talk to Marina about the money, others say she’s doing it cause she’s jealous. Some say Marina is too harsh, others say Vanessa needed to hear it.

My opinion was, yes, she was being a bitch to Clara. If you are Vanessa, it makes sense. I understood why. But, Vanessa wasn’t in Clara’s shoes. So while sometimes I agree with her point, I didn’t like the cocky ‘better than thou’ attitude. If you wanna make a point, make a point cause sure, you have a good one, but lose the attitude and the grin and make your point or nobody will take you seriously.

She’s right to call Marina on the money situation and while a lot of remarks may have come from jealousy, a lot of them came from genuine concern. Marina blowing up at her in the bedroom kind of came out of nowhere (even though we knew it was coming cause of spoilers), but why did she bring it up? I felt Vanessa went up there cause she cared about the studio, in my opinion she was right, Marina needed to wake up and smell the poverty already. She did tell her many times and I understood why it frustrated her. I felt they were both right, but also both wrong, on certain things. Marina was slacking in the work department, why would she not listen to Vanessa? So, after last Monday’s fight, where Marina awesomely tossed Vanessa out of the room, I had many questions, about Marina and Vanessa both. Couldn't quite put my finger on some things, didn’t know why some ladies did what they did. Bottom line, I was confused. I don’t like being confused.

The obvious solution to confusion? Ramble mode, of course. I start writing, start with things I know, I elaborate on them, explain them, to myself, if you will. Because while I am writing, my thoughts jump to places, when they come back they bring me connections that I didn’t realize I had already made. Or they were hidden somewhere and I just needed my brain to bring me back that certain scene I needed to remember that contained the missing piece to build the bridge. I write my way to the answer, so to speak. Or I just wrote my way into you all wondering exactly what kind of crazy I should be filed under.

Anyway, I started writing after Monday’s episode. Before I knew it, I had written my way to a conclusion that kind of made sense to me but it didn’t explain everything. It explained some things, but there was a missing piece still. My gut said I was on the right track, but I wasn’t quite sure, maybe I used too strong a phrase, then again I don’t think so, then I erased and retyped a few things in different ways, but I just... wasn’t sure. My theory needed more proof, I guess. I had to put this post aside for now, I haven’t added anything until I picked it up now.

Friday, I had a little medical situation right before the episode aired, so the rest of the night is kind of a blur. I did see the episode live, but it hardly stuck with me and instead of diving into scenes like I always do basically right after it airs, I had to take care of me instead of the blog. I didn’t see Friday’s scenes again until Saturday late afternoon and I only saw them with translations just a few hours ago, after seeing Saturday’s episode. Because I hardly remember the night before due to stuff, I consider that my first real viewing. The scene from Friday where Marina and Vanessa talk at the Galpão, about money and the book she couldn’t buy, stirred something. I didn’t have translations still, so I was just going on expressions, but there was something.

As we were discussing Saturday scenes on the forum, a conversation about Vanessa reminded me of this half finished post. Some comment sparked some thoughts which proceeded to make some jumpety jumps and suddenly I realized, I had my answer. I did some quick checking and even though I still think it’s a strong statement to make, I am going to make it. So, this post was initially only one page long, intended to kind of respond to the buzz created by Vanessa claiming Marina wanted Cadu as well, some triangle thing. Knowing I was missing a piece of the puzzle on Monday, I shelved it, now that I think I figured it out, I am glad I did. I feel better posting it like this. I know you want me to get to the point already, but I am afraid I’m going to make you wonder a bit longer, I need to build my case a bit, so to speak.

I am just gonna start with the part that I already wrote, it’s still valid. Little bit of plain dialog first. So during the fight that happened last Monday, Marina called Vanessa out on a few things. They argue, it gets kind of nasty.

At one point Vanessa tells Marina, ‘Forget about Clara, it won’t take you anywhere.’
Marina answers, ‘Do you want me to forget my love story?’
V: ‘A love story where only one person loves, what is that?’
M: ‘Can't you see that it’s difficult for Clara too?’
V: ‘It was difficult for me too. Do you remember how hard it was for me? How I did everything to be with you. But I am here, until today.’

Vanessa makes it about her, but it’s not. When a love between two people ends, sometimes the love is over for one of them, the other loves still. The one that stopped loving now loves another. It doesn’t matter if the one who was in the former relationship loves or not. Vanessa says, what about me? It was difficult for me too. But Marina said the love was over. She moved on. If Vanessa found that difficult, that’s rough on her, sure, but she wasn’t forced to stay. She said she did everything to be with her. Now she says, when Marina says it’s been difficult for Clara, that it’s been difficult for her too. So? Should Marina break off her relationship with Clara cause her ex found it difficult? Are you kidding me?!

This makes no sense whatsoever, it’s not relevant at all. If she couldn’t handle the situation, she shouldn’t have stayed. She should have moved on. She didn’t, but that doesn’t mean that Marina is responsible for her heart. That’s on her own. But Vanessa doesn’t see it that way apparently, to her it doesn’t matter if Clara is hurting. She doesn’t even confirm or deny it. All she says is, what about me? She makes it about her, as if not being able to move on from the one you love suddenly gives you the right to win your love back. It doesn’t.

Vanessa gave herself that right. To her, she’s been mistreated herself cause her efforts didn’t pay off, she didn’t get the girl even though she gave so much. Suddenly this Clara person comes in, an ordinary housewife, Vanessa didn’t see anything that made her special. She couldn’t see what Marina saw. She didn’t understand. That made it worse. It wasn’t even a love she understood. But this ordinary housewife comes into their lives, swoops her love away, she sees Marina fall deeper and deeper into the arms of Clara. Even worse, not only has Marina completely lost her heart to this woman. It looks like she’s going to get her too, cause Clara has lost her heart along with Marina. She’s going to lose Marina to someone that she never saw as worthy in the first place. After she did all this.

It doesn’t matter that Marina loves her. It doesn’t matter that Clara loves her back. As soon as it became clear to Vanessa that this time was for real, she was threatened, she was hurt, she was being replaced, in her eyes. Not in Marina’s, not in mine either. Like Marina said she broke it off with her way before Clara even came into the picture, but in Vanessa’s eyes, Marina belonged to her, no matter what. It doesn’t matter if there is love between Marina and Clara. Vanessa never truly gave Clara a fair shot.

Selfish. Hers. Will do anything up to this point, otherwise all this time she waited for nothing. She’ll say anything. That is exactly what she does. In the fight with Marina she provokes her by suggesting she wanted Cadu as well.

When Vanessa suggests it, a lot of people weren’t happy at all they threw the suggestion in the air that Marina might have wanted a triangle relationship, or a threesome, or I don’t know. That’s the last thing Marina wants, to be honest, she hasn’t given Cadu one single look since the first episode, basically. It was always Clara. But they weren’t happy, people might take it the wrong way, wouldn’t look good to the audience. While to some degree I understand where those opinions are coming from, what Maneco had in mind with this scene, was not throwing in the air what Vanessa said. He wasn’t suggesting Marina was bi or wanted a triangle or anything like that. In my opinion, what he wanted the audience to see, was this:

Marina was so outraged by the mere suggestion alone and how ridiculous it was, that she kicked Vanessa’s ass right out of the room.

Yes. Kicked her ass out of the room. I loved it, by the way, that was awesome. ‘Done with this, shut the hell up, get the hell out.’ I think that was Maneco’s message to the audience. They saw her make such a retarded suggestion, that Marina couldn’t even muster up the patience to respond and needed her out of there. In that whole conversation, Marina has counter arguments for all of Vanessa’s points about love, none of Vanessa’s points stick. She intentionally provoked Marina, got kicked out as a result, which was exactly Maneco’s intention. He wanted to show the audience how moronic that statement is. I think he had another angle with it, though. A clue if you will. But, before I get to that I’ll need to explain further first.

So we drop in right before Vanessa starts provoking, Marina has just once again confirmed how much she loves Clara, Vanessa is realizing she isn’t getting anywhere this way, so she brings up the husband. ‘Do you remember when you saw Clara and who she was with? She was arm in arm with her husband.’

When Marina realizes she’s going to bring up the husband, her head jerks up slightly in both surprise and ‘so very tired of this’-desperation and wears a face that screams ‘Not this again!’ She is so done with this same conversation all the time so she closes her eyes and kind of desperately drops her head in her hands like a beautifully executed face palm in reverse. I took the liberty to provide this wonderful display of frustration and the desperate seconds of head scratching that follow with my own version of the subtitles:

‘Same argument every single time. Groundhog nightmare. This is totally useless. I am not getting through to her! She’s not hearing me. Is she ever going to let this go?’

When Vanessa sees this reaction, she actually has kind of a triumphant look in her eyes and a flash of a smile washes over her face before it’s gone again and replaced by a slightly more controlled one, but she’s apparently getting her intended result. She’s getting to her.

She continues, saying, ‘And you thought, look, I want to steal this woman from her beautiful husband.’

Marina can hardly believe Vanessa would think that she wanted to steal Clara from her husband. Vanessa knows Marina loves her, she didn’t want to steal her. She wasn’t trying to win a prize. It wasn’t about stealing, gaining, winning, anything like that. It was about love. She was never out to destroy relationships, she was in love. She can’t believe what Vanessa is claiming, she knows her better than that, right? She doesn’t get it. How could Vanessa think that was her angle? It doesn’t make sense, she can’t figure it out yet. She will, she’ll get those answers later, but for now she’s just very frustrated, annoyed, hurt, upset and very, very tired of this conversation they seem to have every day. But this time it’s weird and confusing.

Marina releases the globally used ‘Argh!’ of frustration we all know and love. She’s pretty pissed off and desperate when she replies angrily, ‘See how you know nothing of what I think about?’

Vanessa can see how frustrated Marina is and looks rather pleased about it so whatever her angle is, she’s on the right path and adds some fuel to the fire by going one step further, ‘I know and I'll say more. I bet that you dreamed of a triangle. You, Clara and Cadu. Together. Didn't you dream?’

At first, Marina actually does not understand what the hell is going on. Initially she’s still leaning her head in her hand in her desperation, but by the time Vanessa is almost done naming all three of them, Marina raises her head. The anger has temporarily been replaced by a perfect example of a ‘What the fuck?’ while Vanessa finishes but there’s also a touch of realization, slowly creeping into her thoughts towards that place filed under ‘Wait a minute… ’. She doesn’t know the answer yet, but she has a clue now, at least. She actually leans in a bit more, to take a good look at Vanessa. It’s like she’s trying to see in her eyes and determine if it’s actually the real Vanessa in there, if she’s not been infected by an alien parasite that’s controlling her brain right now, making up bullshit to piss her off.

She’s realizing something. Why is Vanessa saying these things, these hurtful things, when she should damn well know better? First she says she wants to steal Clara from her husband as some sort of prize which is the dumbest thing she ever heard and Vanessa knows that. Even though that part didn’t make any sense whatsoever, here she goes and takes it even further. It’s like no bigger pile of bullshit has ever been uttered by anyone. So we see a tiny light bulb in the twinkle of her eyes, when a dot connects with another dot.

When that clue dawns on her, she goes back to angry. She can hardly believe it but the thought is there now and she can’t let it go. She needs answers now, so she takes control by provoking back, defying her, baiting even.

She is much calmer when she questions Vanessa in a low voice, ‘What do you want? Do you want me to open my heart to you now, Vanessa?’

Vanessa didn’t see the light bulb. She doesn’t know she lost control, she thinks she’s still in control. She thinks she can take it up one more notch. Marina can’t wait to hear her next answer as she is looking for confirmation. She gets it, when Vanessa makes an equally ridiculous statement as the one just before.

‘You threw your net but he didn't fall, right? The opposite, he's swimming far away from you, taking Clara with him.’

When Vanessa begins talking, there’s still slight disbelief in Marina’s face but her suspicions are being confirmed, it’s just that she still has trouble believing it. The last half of Vanessa’s statement is received with a whole different expression. It’s slightly sad. But mostly, it says ‘Now it makes all sense.’ It’s the look of realization, of understanding what’s probably going on. She gets it now, suddenly all the tiny little clues are starting to make a little sense as Vanessa gives her some missing pieces. Her mouth is closed when Vanessa is finished, Marina is determined and angry and you can almost see this anger rise in her face in the time span of only a few seconds. She’s aware now and very pissed off, but mostly, at this point, she’s absolutely and very much, utterly done with this and with Vanessa and she needs her gone now.

She starts getting up, furious now, dragging and pulling Vanessa up with her by the arm, while she’s yelling, ‘Enough! Enough!’

Vanessa is surprised. She didn’t see this coming. She thought she had control and now finds herself being tossed out of the room. She utters a few objections but Marina is one pissed off lady right now and Vanessa’s objections only make her yell even louder as she starts pushing her towards the door, working her out of the room.

She keeps yelling, ‘I don't want to hear any other nonsense from you. Go, go, go, go. Enough! I hate you.’ She emphasizes her last ‘Enough!’ with a final push, as she works Vanessa out of her bedroom as fast as she can.

Well, this happened. That was awesome. First of all, great job by both Tainá and Maria, amazing scene, I had me some goose bumps all the way and I could feel the tension, the confusion, the hurt, the shock, the disbelief, it was one of those moments that leave me with a tickle. When I saw this scene for the first time, I could see Vanessa’s provoking attitude. While Vanessa has called Marina out before, like on the money stuff which I agreed with, on a number of occasions, even though I didn’t understand what they were saying, when Marina started to work her out the door, I kind of cheered. For some reason I was on her side and felt she was justified in tossing her ass out. When I saw the scene again but this time knowing what was said, I confirmed to myself Vanessa was talking bullshit, that she knew very well that it was bullshit, so she’s provoking her on purpose. But I couldn’t figure out why.

It took me a while to figure out. She’s doing it on purpose. She knows she’s talking bullshit. I thought, ‘You want her to be with you, why are you making her angry at you, why are you pissing her off? You care about her, I know you do, why do you seem to be pushing her away, you’re smart enough to see that.’ I couldn’t figure it out. And then it just came to me when a brainwave took a little detour and returned with an interesting eye opener.

She’s pissing Marina off and making her desperate and miserable on purpose, because when Marina is miserable and sad, Marina needs Vanessa.

A happy Marina dances around with her head in the clouds and has happy thoughts about Clara. She doesn’t need Vanessa’s affection and comfort. To a certain degree, sure. As a friend, sure. But she also finger snaps her to attention when she wants her to bring her phone. A happy Marina makes Vanessa feel discarded and to a certain degree that’s even true. But a happy Marina makes her feel not needed as well and Vanessa needs Marina to need her. If she makes her desperate enough, she’ll go back to that place where she’s lying in bed being miserable and she’ll need Vanessa again. She gets to comfort her, be there for her, make her food, give her massages and be the shoulder to cry on. She’s hoping to talk Clara out of her mind, in the end, Marina will see eventually that she’s always there and they are supposed to be together.

The problem is, it doesn’t work like that. That’s not how you ‘win someone back’. But Vanessa can’t see it, cause she’s so blinded by the mere idea of ‘I need to have Marina, she needs to be mine.’ that she’s gotten to the point where she has to have her no matter what, even if she has to hurt her first, like she was intentionally hurting her in the fight today. Not being able to let go of someone, when hurting them so you can have them has become more important than their happiness, there’s a word for that. It’s called Obsession.

That was what was bugging me earlier this week. I had the word in my head, found it very strong, took it out, put it back, thought of leaving it out and posting it without being sure but it felt incomplete. Wasn’t sure enough to post it leaving it in, either. I think being obsessed with someone is very serious, it’s not something I use lightly, so as a result, I waited. I couldn’t just throw that out there without being sure. Then today as I had the conversation in the forum, a lot of things suddenly clicked and the word isn’t too strong to me anymore. I think Vanessa has an unhealthy case of obsession with Marina. There’s mild obsessions and very dangerous ones, to be honest, I’m not sure yet which one, could be just a mild one, but in my opinion, Vanessa crossed the line of ‘very in love and can’t let go’ into where you have to start calling it an actual obsession.

I will take it even further by claiming that Marina has come to the same conclusion, mainly because of this very conversation. She caught on to many other things before that, but like me hadn’t figured it out yet. After this fight on Monday, that changed. She caught on during the talk, highly suspected it, afterwards she thought it through and she realized it was the case. Of course I wouldn’t make such a heavy statement without considering and reconsidering all over again. I even shelved it cause I didn’t want to miss a piece and be wrong cause I jumped to conclusions. If I turn out to be wrong now, which of course, is always a possibility, at least I can tell myself that in my opinion, the signs were there and I gave it time and thought and didn’t hastily make a statement like this.

So, as for my reasons, I have a lot arguments, I think I am actually probably missing some. I left you hanging long enough, I will get on with it. Here we go.

I have a couple.

I will start with Friday’s scene, 16th of May, Marina and Vanessa talk at the Galpão after Marina’s cards have been declined. She called Vanessa over. Marina leaves class for a moment to talk to her. Clara’s reaction is in this case not relevant at all, so I will skip that. Let’s stay focused.

They find a quiet place to talk, Vanessa asks what happened, Marina says, ‘I went to buy a book and my two cards were declined. I was mortified.’

She’s not kidding. She really is. Not just that, she was totally embarrassed when it happened, she still is. Now, if this happened to me, sure, I’d be slightly embarrassed too, but I would not be mortified. Also, if I had a person who handles my finances, which I don’t, I’d be fine with a phone call. I would find a private place to make the call, sure, but I wouldn’t ask them to drive a distance or which I’m thinking is quite a hassle in the middle of Rio. Also, calling is quicker even, if something needs to be sorted, so it’s even more efficient.

But Marina is not me. Marina has never ever been in this situation before. Marina always had money and if she ever imagined how this would feel, she probably didn’t think she’d find it this horrible. She simply could not picture it. She always had plenty of cash, I think she has probably never been this embarrassed in her entire life. Also, like I said, calling is more efficient even. But Marina never had to think practical. She doesn’t even realize. Never gave it a thought. Vanessa is her money person, Vanessa comes running.

So, with that in the back of our minds, we can go a bit quicker through the scene to the part that matters most, the one that gave me a clue. She talks about even more embarrassment if Chica and Helena would have seen it. Giselle is her friend even, which is horrible enough to her, let alone Clara’s mom and sister. I’m not even sure how she’d handle that one. She asks Vanessa what happened, why can’t I buy a single book? Vanessa knows what’s up, duh, you have no cash.

Marina wants to know why she nobody told her that. At this point I was shaking my head, thinking, No, Marina, she did. What are you doing? Vanessa is like, hello, that would be me, 1560 times, Marina takes it as sarcasm for some reason, is in denial, while Vanessa keeps saying how she warned her and she never listened.

Ok, now, I gotta be honest, the first time I saw it was live, I had no translations, plus that was the blurry day I had, I hardly remember it really, or anything else that evening, so I don’t really count that. The second time was still without translations but I had read the spoiler so I knew Marina would be all, ‘Dude, why?! You didn’t tell me?’ and Vanessa would be like, ‘Bitch please, I totally did six hundred times.’ This total denial Marina has had bothered me before, but I didn’t know the answer. I couldn’t figure it out yet.

So they go a few times and I’ll be honest, I’m on Vanessa’s side here, but I’m getting weird vibes. Their tone of voice, Marina is actually serious. She’s not blaming herself. At all. She is actually totally blaming Vanessa, when she should know in my opinion, it’s totally her own fault for not listening, but she seems to be convinced that Vanessa never told her. It was weird. I even started to wonder, does Marina have some situation, is she on meds for some kind of I don’t know what…? She seems perfectly sane when it’s not about money. I did not understand why Marina is in total denial mode. So here I am, not getting it, I’m also slightly uncomfortable even. I hate it. Then at some point Marina seems to realize, or, acknowledge to herself anyway, that ok, ‘Vanessa is right, I guess she did say.’ She seems to accept that when she brings her hand up to her face, and says ‘I don’t believe this, unbelievable, how did this happen.’

While I am cheering that she finally seems to get it, I am still not happy. It’s like Marina is wondering ‘I was supposed to take you seriously? You never told me that part!’ Or something. But really, genuinely. She is not playing this for Vanessa. She’s for real right now, she seems surprised that Vanessa was apparently serious all this time. I’m… just… totally lost. Totally. Why appoint someone that you don’t believe when they say something, to be your manager or financial person. It doesn’t make sense to me.

Vanessa first has a rant about not listening, then brings up Clara, says all she thinks about is her, all the time, you don’t hear anything else, you didn’t think of anything else. I understood it was about Clara, could even understand that Vanessa brought it up and at first I kind of agreed with her. At first, yes. Not so much anymore. Maybe a little, but like 1% maybe. That will be clear later I hope. Anyway, Marina switches gear to ultra defense mode, the second Clara’s name is mentioned. The first time I saw this, I didn’t give as much importance to it as I do now. That was her response for a while now, so it didn’t surprise me. She knows Vanessa is jealous, stop making this about Clara, etc. Didn’t read anything into it, yet.

She goes totally feisty, speaking clenching her jaws together, hissing almost, Marina is pissed. Demands to know if she’s punishing her, why this torture, is she supposed to just run back to Vanessa now because I should be so grateful etc. I don’t even know what is said exactly, but I know Marina is mad, defending herself and I find myself thinking, you don’t have the right. Vanessa keeps very calm, I’m not sure why she’s not blowing up. In her situation, I’d be kind of pissed myself too. I was on Vanessa’s side of this argument, from what I knew, it was kind of creepy, cause I wasn’t liking Marina right now.

They go on, she won’t get Clara in bed, Cadu is joining the conversation, as reason for Clara not to leave him, Marina still defending for a bit, details not that important right now, then Marina changes subject back to money. How do we fix it? She wants to know. Vanessa names some things that are not only rational, but also very logical, like, how about work, you know? Just a though. But, it’s like Marina has no idea.

So, remember that alien I mentioned? The one who was in control of Vanessa? I’m just wondering now if it didn’t find a better host in Marina or something. None of this makes sense. Why this denial, stupidity almost? It was creeping me out.

So what is going on here? This is not the Marina I know, or understand. I’m not pleased! I am upset! At first I had no clue, but now at the time of writing, I think it’s a combination of two things.

One, Marina never had a clue what having no money actually means. She was just living on a rock when it comes to that. No sense of reality. People always took care of it for her, she had absolutely no clue how to value money. It was simply always there. So I think she totally underestimated the problem. That part, I guess if you are that rich all your life, I can sort of rationalize. Don’t know what it feels like, but I suppose, you know, not impossible? Anyway.

Two. So why did she not hear Vanessa? For some reason she chose to not believe Vanessa when she said things are bad. Every single time she said it. She must have had some good reason to doubt what she said. So while I drew that conclusion, still had no idea why what that reason could be. Like I said, why on earth hire a manager you don’t listen when they say stuff is going on? I’m not happy cause I can’t figure it out, but the scene goes on.

Marina seems to actually listen to what Vanessa says at least, which is progress. The mood right now, Vanessa is surprisingly calm, which I didn’t expect that. Marina is still visibly annoyed as Vanessa names the work stuff. When Vanessa is done citing her ‘how to not be broke’-list, that’s the moment it happens.

I felt like I blinked and almost missed it. It’s like I missed a short and very important something, because suddenly Marina is all smiles, she swoons at Vanessa, puts on her most seductive eye pose she has, then with the friendliest, sweetest voice, like nothing happened, she purrs, ‘Help me?’

What just happened? I could not believe what I just saw. Not how fast Marina makes her in-a-flash-of-a-second- 180 U-turn from irrationally pissed off into purring seductive kitten, nor how fast after that, Vanessa literally melts away in her arms and is giggly and totally smitten like a 13 year old talking to her school yard crush. Starts rambling stuff that sounds sweet to my non Portuguese ears. She’s all smiles, everything seems to be forgotten, they are best friends forever right now, Marina says thank you, they both say something else, and Marina is off.

What. The. Hell? So I need a second to process this. I didn’t want to believe what I saw. Because if so, Marina has just shown me the art of manipulation and taking advantage of someone who sees you as their true love and also you just blamed them for all your mistakes moments before. I did not want to know this. This is not right. I replay it again, hoping I got it wrong. Replayed, again, again, until I could not conclude anything else except yes, Marina did do just that. And I was not happy. At. All.

How, did Vanessa melt like that, so fast? I thought sure, maybe she’s crazy sometimes and yes, she is in love, but I thought she had a spine at least. She was treated in a very ugly way in my opinion and like snow in the sun, that is forgotten. What bothers me just as much and maybe even more, is that Marina did that one hundred percent on purpose. I’m leaning back in my chair and I don’t understand. I am actually sad. On my screen, I see it her do it, over and over again, but I still can’t believe it. I don’t want to. There has to be something else, another explanation, something I missed. Have to keep searching at least until I am sure.

There had to be something, this couldn’t just appear out of nowhere. Of course I had no translations yet, it could be hidden in there, so I started posting requests if anyone perhaps had some. One by one I watched the scenes again, most for the first time, cause the bistro was actually the first one I opened and in the end also the last translation I got. But, by that time, I had cleared Marina’s name. I was so relieved. I never really believed it but what if I couldn’t disprove it? I am glad I did, because I found it! I found proof, many different kinds. Scary moment, over. Watching that scene with translations later only confirmed what I knew already. Extra proof is nice.

So, this moment turned out longer than I thought it would, but hey, you know me, I want to be thorough. I claimed Vanessa is obsessed. I still do. When looking to clear Marina’s name, I found proof for both. The beach flashback gave me the next clue, which gave me the urge to check the fight scene we had Monday and that I have just described in detail. After watching a few lines only, I suddenly found the inside of my head lighting up like a Chevy Chase Christmas tree, all the light bulbs turned on, I could see all the connections clearly and it was awesome! It was Christmas inside my head, all I had to do was check the other clues that popped up, then simply write it down and I have me a new cool post. Yeah, I still underestimate my ability to ‘simply’ especially when I am as excited about it as I am right now.

The clues.

I think the flashback had two purposes. One, show the audience that girl/girl affection is not evil, people will survive this without permanent scars. The second was of course to show Vanessa and Marina’s relationship back then and how they were now. How Vanessa was now.

When watching with translations I looked at Vanessa and found… Needy. Clingy. To me, it seemed obvious that Vanessa needed Marina a lot more than Marina needed her. Vanessa had to watch Marina all the time. She had to keep staring, Marina is chilling with her eyes closed half the time, she’s not on her side towards Vanessa, Vanessa is though, Marina is all she sees.

Vanessa actually made a comment about it how she always has to keeps looking. Marina thought it was kind of cute probably at first, but not anymore. If someone is looking at you all the time. That gets annoying. You don’t know where to turn anymore. Marina didn’t feel that same urge at all, in the beginning maybe, nice to feel wanted, but not anymore. Vanessa looks as if they just started dating. Either you did just start and but you’d both be like that, which Marina wasn’t, or, you were dating for a longer period and the butterfly phase had passed for Marina, but not for Vanessa. I’m sure there was love, but not the kind you can compare, not the kind that works. In Marina’s case, already fading. I’m sure she loved her, still does in a way, but not the way Vanessa loves her.

After they lie down, Marina also says. ‘It seems you can’t go two seconds without touching or grabbing me.’ I find that sort of, a hint, I immediately thought about ‘smothering, too clingy, trapped, can’t breathe, give me some space’. Things like that. To me, that’s a hint. Something you want to make clear, but you don’t want to hurt them so you try to be nice about it. So this scene barely started, she’s already asking for space. Vanessa didn’t catch. She thinks Marina likes it, Vanessa laughs, yes, how cute am I, doing that? Marina doesn’t think it’s cute. Not anymore.

Vanessa says she’s scared of losing her. Marina is actually surprised, ‘Why, when I love you so much?’ She means it too. No, rephrase, she means that she meant it once. She feels it less, but she doesn’t want to hurt her, she’s not there yet. But when she says it, she makes sure to be convincing. Seduction mode is equipped, sweetest smile, finger to the cheek. She’s actually a bit annoyed though. There was no need to fall out of love, but all this insecurity about falling out of love is exactly what’s making it happen. It doesn’t matter what she will say. Vanessa is scared anyway. Marina says all is good.

Vanessa claims ‘Because you are too beautiful to be constant and faithful', which is nonsense.

Vanessa asks what her flaw is, ‘I am a liar.’ answers Marina. That makes me wonder about how much she loved her, how much she said. Maybe she is a really good liar. Maybe they’ve been together for a while and she’s fallen out of love, but not out of affection yet.

Marina makes all the decisions. No, we are stopping, ok we are swimming. All Vanessa does is agree with everything. This whole scene, Vanessa has been nothing but bliss. Marina on the other hand, she smiled a pretty smile now and then. Sometimes she seems to forget that Vanessa was there, preferred the sun on her face with her eyes closed. She’s also is the one to suggest they end the intimate pose and go to the sea.

Second hint as they walk into the sea, ‘Wow Vanessa, always looking.’

Two now? In this flashback alone? That’s not hints anymore, more like official letter that you have to sign for. That’s a painless complaint, hoping they will notice. Vanessa did not. She’s doesn’t see Marina’s annoyance. She thinks Marina is loving it.
I think Marina felt completely smothered and it was driving her crazy.

Present day, Bedroom

Marina wakes up, Vanessa is staring at her, When Marina sees her, it creeps her out at first, spooks her. Then she sees it’s Vanessa and starts laughing but it’s not happy. ‘Should have known.’

Marina drops the third hint, ‘Wow, Van, always looking.’ It’s a echo from back then. She’s is still smothered. Her face, annoyed as hell as she lies in bed. No space, trapped.

Vanessa is still every bit as clingy as she was back then. She’s hurting, yes, still just as much in love as she was long ago. But she is not just in love, this is an obsession.

When she asks Vanessa if she thought she was dead, it’s the most heartbreaking voice Tainá ever used. It’s like wishes Vanessa would say yes yet she knows she won’t. Then she’d not be around all the time, anymore. That she could please stop being around her, watching her every move, all day, every day, all the time. I felt she sounded like a prisoner. I got a major chill.

Marina says nobody would mourn for her, I was slightly confused at first. She knows Clara would, she does. Then I realized, she is in such a bad place right now, she can’t even see that. The only one who’s always around her, here in that bad place, is Vanessa. Vanessa feels needed when Marina is in a bad place. She says, ‘I’m all you need anyway.’ In Vanessa’s mind, there is no room for Clara. For anyone else. Marina gives Vanessa a look after she says it, I will actually call it hatred.

Vanessa says she hid the medicine, Marina shakes her head. She’s not that far off. She doesn’t need to be on suicide watch. She think probably Vanessa hopes she is, more reason to watch her. She’s probably right.

How many times did Marina say to Clara, don’t mind her, she’s jealous, don’t mind her. Marina says it so often. I never paid attention. She knew something we didn’t. She knew how bad it was. She already knew it was extreme jealousy. I think she told Clara about it, too, quite soon, cause Clara was very quick to stop taking offense.

Marina’s Bedroom, May 3rd

Marina is drained. Vanessa is pissed. We all thought she went up there to talk about work. To us it came out of nowhere, sort of. But to Marina, she’s smothered for years, to her it wasn’t out of nowhere. It had to stop, she was done.

I think many scenes like this will be more clear.

Bistro, May 8th
The time stop scene. After cutesy flirting, Clara and Marina go talk, as they walk away, Marina says Vanessa is up to something. They go discuss it, I think they do that a lot. Whatever Marina knows at that point, chances are, Clara knows most of it.

There is something else. And it’s a little twisted. Even more I mean. Vanessa is obsessed. I am convinced. But Marina, she is literally a prisoner. Of her own misguided take on reality when it comes to money, being broke. She never did any administration, no idea about finances. Because she had no idea, she didn’t see it coming. And now I get why she didn’t listen to Vanessa when she said it wasn’t going well with the studio finances. Might have been a good idea to check for herself. I guess maybe she’s been tricked more often by her and her initial thought is not believe her. Marina needs to be taken care of. Vanessa does that. She’s trapped. She can’t get out.

Bistro, May 12th

Two hands, double butterflies. Remember that? The epic intertwined finger hand holding?

Marina says this: ‘But I admire you, because I can't take care of anyone, I think not even a puppy.
Clara replies she underestimates herself. She just never needed to do it.
Marina: ‘Yeah, it can be. I think I... I think I need to be taken care of.’
She still thinks it. I think when it comes to this, Vanessa pretty much brainwashed her. Every time she was feeling up, Vanessa found a way to bring her down. Because when she was down, when she was sad, was when she needed Vanessa. And more than anything. Vanessa needs to be needed by Marina.

I don’t think I will be surprised, if Vanessa is somehow connected or behind the whole money thing. She wants to make Marina need her. What better way, than take all that makes their life easy all the things Marina knew. Now all that’s left, it Marina who doesn’t know anything. She is a captive.

Marina’s bedroom, May 12th
Almost every sentence is an example.

Marina knows, this has been going on, for a long time. M: ’You can't even disguise how happy you get with my unhappiness.’ V: ’Just cause I have fun with the kicks you get from that woman.’ V: ’A love story where only one person loves, what is that’?
Manipulating, talking her into doubt. Vanessa know about the feelings. She just wants them gone. For Marina to forget her. She just want Marina to forget her. She keeps trying to make Marina doubt Clara’s feelings for her.

When Vanessa starts the sentence bringing up the husband, she’s serious. As soon as she sees Marina’s frustrated response, a smile pops through on her face, as if on cue. It’s working! She’s found her angle, this is what she needed and she continues hurting, still smiling as she tells her the second line, knowing she is affecting her. She’s bringing Marina to the place where she needs Vanessa. The bad place.

M: ’Then help me, help me. Stop putting me down cause that won't take us anywhere.’
Maria knows it

V: ’My love, I'll do anything for you. I've told you, but please forget that woman. My God, it won't take you anywhere.’ She’ll do anything. Literally. It’s just Clara in the way. In her eyes, that’s all that stands between them.

M: ’Have you stopped to think that maybe I don't like all that possessiveness of yours, that I don't like being your property or anyone's. Oh Vanessinha, come here, you are too stressed. I don't think you're understanding things.’ Marina is annoyed. Royally pissed off.

V: ’Oh, a massage.’ Marina roughly grabs Vanessa, with sarcasm in her voice, starts squeezing. Vanessa is so delusional, all she knows, is massage. Fun! She doesn’t sense the sarcasm. She actually tries to kiss her, she think Marina wants to. She has no idea about reality.

M: ’You don't love me the way you used to love me in the beginning of our relationship. You changed. Now you want to have my ownership. You want to domesticate me.’
V: ’It was difficult for me. Do you remember? How hard it was for me. How I did everything to be with you. But I'm here, until today. But you got tired, right? You replaced me for...’
The replaced part really sets her off. In Vanessa’s eyes, she still next in line. Marina can’t believe her ears. It’s delusional.

M: ’Replaced? I... stop there. You said "you replaced me for". I didn't replace you whatsoever. We had ended a long time ago when Clara showed up beautiful, fascinating in that exhibition. I fell in love at first sight, yes. And it's not short lived, or it would have ended already. Nothing ends inside me. It only grows. It increases.’
Marina finally blows up.

At the last bits of provocation, the Cadu triangle, it was so ridiculous, Marina understood it all. Vanessa actually wants her to feel bad, so Vanessa has a reason to be around. I bet Marina is avoiding her when she can. Which means, Vanessa had to find a way to get her back, by making her miserable.

But, she took the outrageous too far this time. Now Marina knows how deep this goes, and that she’s been doing this, for years.

Bistro, May 17th
I think Marina got a pretty good clue on the 12th, during the fight. Intentionally pissing her off, knowing she says things that aren’t true. She knows now Vanessa wants her to be frustrated.
When Vanessa calmly talks to Marina, I think Marina decided to use that power she had over her. Never seen her do it before. She did now. Maybe she suspects her too. The time it took for Vanessa to melt, was record time, after she only talked about how beautiful Marina was. Marina kept swooning. For this money situation, she needed her help.

She decided to take control of this one.


  1. @Colette
    nice post... I'm glad you wrote this. I looked at you kinda crazy when u went in on my baby Marina's character but u did clear her name :)
    ...I'm happy you've pointed out all the signs about Van. I can remember commenting as some of these things were happening that "no1 is talking to Van" "cant stand her" and other things of that nature, but you've made it really clear to me why i was getting that Van is Creepy not just jealous feeling all the time. i must have called her a creep at least 2 or 3 times before because of her behavior. The real proof for me is the beach flashback and then Marina waking up to Van and being scared but not exactly relieved at who's there in her bed(room). I haven' seen the bistro scene with subs yet to know if Marina's playing Van's obsessive traits toward her advantage or if she's just asking for her friend's/manager's help...but i also thank you for pointing out the HandKiss scene's significance to this point of view: even if Marina does need to be taken care of and its not just Van making her feel that way Marina has put Clara on notice that the position of "Marina's Caregiver" is open. And it would be a real twist if Van had something to do with the $ but from what we know its a result of Marina's dad and Marina not working
    Anyway thanks for sharing a great post

    1. I really don't think Marina's money vanished so suddenly just because of her dad and her lack of work. Not so long ago (maybe on the previous the episode, the one she was going all sexy to her first class), she discussed with Van and reminded she still had money to cover the studio for sometime (and Vanessa confirmed that by remarking bitterly "but we don't know until when.." to which she replied "when 'until when' comes, we'll see").

      Now, how could on a couple of days later, all her two bank accounts be insufficient to buy a single mere BOOK (which would cost less than 50 dollars)? This is strange, especially considering she didn't make any new major expense (like shopping, throwing a party, flying on helicopters) in the meantime.

      I think Van could really have exploited that opportunity, and used that upcoming poverty as an excuse to empty her account and make Marina "on a leash" again.

    2. Thanks for your post, Dlyn, appreciate it <3 And yeah, the double handhold scene just me go 'hmmm'.

      About Van, yeah, the money thing, I could see it happening, as far as I know, Marina hasn't looked at their back statement once, it's possible Van saw an opportunity and took it, by wiring some more money this way or that way. I'm not convinced yet, but I certainly keeping the option open.

      Thanks for your reply <3

    3. Helena, thank you for your comment, appreciate you sharing your thoughts, we're of the same opinion I suppose.

      Am not sure of anything yet, but it's definitely something I'm keeping in mind, something she's abusing to keep that 'Marina needs Vanessa' hold over her. I do know Marina is totally annoyed her though. She's really ready to get out.

  2. Thank you for your article Ms. Nerdbian, I just loved it! You have Vanessa (Van) SO pegged. It's pretty awesome that Clara has chosen to challenge Van, because Clara is making clear that she is willing to fight for Marina. She obviously is in other ways, but she is not backing down to the Van bully, and kudos to Clara for that. It is interesting that Clara not mentioning these unrelenting Van attacks, it's like everyone, including Clara, is sorta afraid of Van. I'm guessing Clara does not want to disrupt the Marina/Van care-taking situation, because she is definitely not ready to step into that role just yet. Not yet is definitely the mantra for this show… :)

    1. While I think Clara knows about Van's jealousy issues/obsession, I am not sure Clara knows about how unhappy and how trapped Marina is, actually. About her extreme depression moments. I think Marina told her about her clinginess, told her to ignore the comments, but the whole kind of trapped thing... not sure. That, or she underestimates it. I don't know. I will give that some thought.
      Thanks for your comment <3

  3. caramba que artigo incrível, você tocou em todos os pontos que eu estava avaliando. principalmente quando a torcida por clarina elogiava muito a vanessa por cuidar da marina. Elas estavam com muito ódio da Clara por não estar perto, e ver o sofrimento da marina. eu já notava esse comportamento possessivo da Vanessa, e o Flashback serviu pra me mostrar isso a fundo... principalmente naquela parte que a Vanessa sobe em cima da Marina, a moça fica presa e num ato de querer espaço mais não ser arrogante decidiu chamar pra um banho de mar. deu pra entender que a Marina ama de verdade a Clara. Vanessa é cruel, joga a marina lá pra baixo só pra poder mostrar a marina que tá sempre lá pra ela, por ela e que merece te-lá. A Clarinha leva tanto desaforo mas não revela nenhum pra marina pra não deixa-la preocupada e nem ter problemas com quem sempre esteve lá com ela...mas mesmo assim da cada resposta no exu ruivo que só rindo mesmo. estou muito feliz por ter lido tudo isso e sempre defendi a clara pela posição dela em relação a lidar com a obsessão da Vanessa, a recuperação lenta do marido e ainda não ter como tomar uma decisão definitiva.

    1. Right! Muito obrigada for you response, I might understand a bit of Portuguese by now, I'm afraid I still needed some help with this one. :) Google translate is not accurate enough for me, so thankfully, one of my girls on the forum was so kind to tell me the what and the how of everything you said.

      Vanessa is indeed cruel, in a way she doesn't even realize herself. In her own head she has one goal. Get Marina. Get her to need her. That is more important right now than Marina's happiness. She does care about her and her happiness, but she cares more about her own goals, so in that sense, it justifies it for her. Probably the more she does it, the less cruel it seems to her.

      Clara is working her ass off, doing what she can to keep things running, all she gets is being put down by her lazy ass husband (who might even be pretending to be a little bit worse than he really is in my opinion), she gets accused of lots of stuff she didn't do, since cheating in your head cause of feelings you have is not something you can control. She can keep resisting it, which she has done, although it's getting harder and harder. I always feel the need to defend Clara when people get mad at her for not choosing yet.

      Then on the other side, Van is giving her nothing but shit. Clara's going through such a rough time.right now. I hope this gets sorted soon.

  4. Nice article, as usual!
    I completely agree with you... I kept noticing that the cameras insist on focusing on Vanessa when Marina and Clara is having some heart to heart scene! always bugged me that Vanessa is always around, refusing to leave in situations she wasnt supposed to be around... like in the "almost kiss" scene... she enters and starts to stare at some random pictures while they're clearly crying and talking something that is private to them! It bugs me that Marina let her do that too...
    For some time I used to think that Vanessa was being used as some sort of reason between the couple... the one that enters and keeps them on the ground, telling the truth loud and clear! But then she started to be more and more agressive, inconvenient and with crazy eyes...
    I think its a pretty damn good plot if Maneco keeps going through this obssesion thing, but at the sime time i fear that all this will be lost on the nonsense that became this show! The story is open, and it keeps changing, being stalled, rushed, stalled again, and all the good stuff starts to being left behind! But lets hope... the intentions are good, maybe they'll achieve their goal to tell all the story!

    1. Btw, you should definetely try some deal to get your posts translated to portuguese! I know lots of people at boteco clarina that would die to read this, but i dont think everyone is able to! which is such a waste...
      But keep going! I love it!

    2. Thanks :) I just didn't know what her deal was, didn't like she was becoming mean and bitter. Didn't know what they had planned for her, guess now I do :D And about that translating, you offering? :P

  5. Awesome article girl. From my point of view, you hit the spot in mostly of your thoughts. (You actually got some good laugh from me on many parts) just to summarize: Above all, i believe Marina & Van have a solid relationship built up throughout years they have known each other. So, they def know each other well, and beyond all the arguing and fights, the complicity between them both, it kind of amazes me,'cause deep inside they are inseparable (I'm talking about friendship wise) we hear Marina bullshiting all the time that she wouldn't think twice to get away from Van if she needed to, or to be with Clara. I, on the other hand, don't believe that for a second! She's very dependable on Vanessa. It's like Van is her safe harbor. The soap opera hasn't shown clearly their story behind their past, but it's easy to guess: the way I see it, Marina was Van's first woman experience. I remember one of the scenes when they were talking about Van going out with a certain guy way before they met and Marina shouted: oh please, we both know that's not your thing. And the following up scenes between them, made me jump to that conclusion. Because of all of that, it's understandable Vanessa's behavior. She sees Marina like her first and last love of her life. As if she will never feel or find a woman as pretty and special as Marina. Although a lot of times, I disagree with some things she does, I agree and support the majority. She does act jealously, she provokes Marina til she looses her mind, but half of the things she says, she's right! I believe she truly loves Marina and it's almost an unconditional love. If (in her mind) Clara was good for Clara, I think she would suck up her feelings and ego (even hurting inside) and move on. Conforming with her loss.
    But her stubbornness won't let her! Lol. Therefore, it makes her replay the same movie : "Marina,open your eyes, she isn't for you". She's doesn't see Clara as a good lover for Marina. She doesn't want to loose the battle for someone who's married to a dude, with one kid, claims all the time that she loves the husband, and has one foot inside the closet and the other out. I totally get her point. Is there a lit bit of selfishness? Yes there is, but still, she's the only one sticking Marina's feet to the ground. I started admiring Vanessa way more than I used to criticize her, after I realized how much she truly cares and climb mountains for Marina. She may suffocate the ex with over protection but the truth is, if it wasn't for her, Marina would've been more lost and screwed than she already is. Meanwhile, Clara sits on top of the wall, watching everything, trying to figure out what she wants.

    1. Well, making your laugh is at least one goal accomplished :P Thanks for taking it to the blog, never meant hijack her instagram, haha.

      I agree with you that Van is in a way her safe harbour, but I would almost compare it to Stockholm syndrome. Or a 35 year old still living in his mom's basement, cause he can't really let go even though they drive each other mad. Marina has never taken care herself completely in that sense, so I think she's pretty scared of it, being on her own, that's why she told Clara in that epic handhold moment that she thinks she needs to be taken care of. That's why she came with a cooking book as a present. She'd love for Clara to take over that caretaking role, but I think once they get together, Clara will have a say about that, haha :P She will teach her to stand on her own two feet, I don't 'think she will let her become dependant of Clara.

      I'm not sure that Marina is Vanessa's first girlfriend, perhaps, but regardless, even if, to be so hung up on one person, it's not healthy to be so focused on one person. It's suffocating Marina. When Marina was doing yoga at the pool and Van interrupted her, she was totally annoyed, at first when she showed up, when she was leaving as well. Vanessa cares, yes, but she is too controlling, too jealous, too involved in Marina's life. I think Marina now realizes that it's gone too far. She wants out, but it's scary.

      I do think she cares a lot, but I think she takes a step too far. She wants Marina to be happy, but more than that, she wants Marina to want her. It became more important. I think when you cross that line, you're losing grip on things.

      Thanks for sharing your opinion, hope you keep reading my future posts, I hope to bring many <3

      Also, the Clara comment, as my answer I would refer you to my post after this one, and also the answer that I gave a few points up, to Luciete. :P been typing way too long already :P

      Obrigada <3

    2. I agree. You can love someone but there are boundaries. She's too controlling. On the other hand, Marina has got lost on with so many things happening at the same time in her life. Marina is spoiled and I don't think she's used to struggle or fight for anything that she's always wanted. So because of that, even though I don't agree with many of Van's attitudes toward Marina, at the same time I feel glad that at least Marina has someone to take care of her, push her back a little when she's loosing her mind, focusing only on Clara and forgetting about other priorities in life. What I do wish for this story is that Marina ends with Clara and Vanessa ends with Flavinha. I've always cheered for Clarina to be together. Always! But it breaks my heart seeing how much Vanessa loves her, worries about her, while Clara is bitching! She deserves someone who can make her move on, hopefully Flavinha will help with that. And Clara should make her decision because this is getting too annoying.

  6. Wow! Great article, congratulations. I think you were very accurate. I agree with mostly everything. I just don't see Van this way. I do think "obsessed" is a strong word. I think she loves Marina like she never loved everyone and yes, she wasn't able to move on yet. She knows Marina loves Clara but because they are not a couple yet she still sees a slightly possibility of getting Marina back. And also, she sees how Marina suffers (because Clara is still married and can't decide what she wants, I think sometimes Van thinks Clara is just playing with Marina), that's why she doesn't like Clara. To me, the flasback scene and when she is looking Marina sleep with tears in her eyes was when she fully realized that Marina is completely in love with Clara and nobody is going to change that. But she still doesn't like Clara because, in her head, Clara is no good for Marina. I think only when Clara makes a decision and she and Marina are finally together, Van will be able to move on because for now, Marina is her safe place. I can't wait to see her happy with a new love (aka Flavinha lol) because she truly deserves it.

    1. You too! Thanks as well for replying here and of course for sharing your opinion.

      A new love could be the answer, yes, would certainly help. Not sure she'll love Flavinha though, she might just be with her, but still see Marina as the one. Also Clara and Marina being together would definitely put some distance at least between Vanessa and Marina. I think it's not just Marina being unhappy because of not being with Clara though, I think she is double unhappy, because not being with Clara, means being stuck with Vanessa, a situation she wants out of, in my opinion, but it's too scary at this point, because she has no idea how to take care of herself. But she wants out. She was so annoyed with Vanessa at the pool during her abs session, I mean, yoga, session. She really wanted her gone. Marina is ready to let go of Vanessa, but it's scary. She's annoyed that she is in this situation. Right after the flashback, they talked on the bed, Marina looked miserable as hell, her eyes were shooting pure hatred at her. Even more when Marina said no one but Vanessa would mourn her and instead of being a good friend and saying 'Are you crazy, of course people would mourn you, everybody, blah' talking her out of it. But no, instead she says, 'well, you don't need anyone else but me anyway'. She is saying nobody else will. That's not a pep talk. That's horrible and selfish. Marina agreed, she was shooting daggers with her eyes. That was hatred in that moment.

      She wants out. Right now though, in this money situation, she has no idea how to get out of it, she might not completely trust Van at his point, but she's got no idea at all. I'm thinking she should ask Flavinha to take a look at the books or something, hehe.

      She might be disliking Clara more cause she's can't make a decision yet, but look at Flavinha, she also cares about Marina, but she is normal to Clara, she even told Marina she would do the same, in Clara's situation.

      I think Vanessa knows that Clara loves her, various comments that she made, she's just trying to do whatever she can to put doubts in her head, make her give up on her. She sees how Marina suffers because of Clara, but I think Marina suffers just as much because of Vanessa. She's putting her down, making doubt, making her miserable. She wants Clara gone, not because she hurts Marina, that's adding to it, but because she's keeping her away from Marina's heart. She does a fine job of hurting Marina herself and it has become so normal, so justified, the she just doesn't even think it's that high a price anymore, as long as Marina needs her. That's my opinion.

      Anyway, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, always nice to hear a different side, but I am sorry you have not convinced me yet :P

      Thank you! <3

  7. Hey, said I'd do it, and I did. I got through this one. :) Excellent character/motivation study. Made my mind go back to what I said on the forum about Vanessa being the anti-hero impetus character. I still think she is, but I have an addendum to that: it will be accidental on her part.

    Her actions, baiting Cadu and making things difficult for Clara, will draw reactions that benefit Clara, not her as she is attempting. Clara will get pissed enough to throw her hands up and find a different solution rather than sitting there being a "good wife".

    She won't mean for it to happen like that. She just wants a revenge, I think, on Clara, for being the reason that it is so difficult to pull Marina back to her. She recognizes Clara's devotion to domestic matters at home (keeping Cadu healthy and being there for Ivan). She also has seen Clara jump to Cadu every time there is a health scare/crisis. So she's playing that angle to keep Clara away. And then she also uses that against Marina when she says that Clara is running to Cadu. It's a shame she cannot read their thoughts. She might give up or she might get violent in a police drama kind of way.

    I can see the police video now, Vanessa being pulled out of the studio in handcuffs, hissing and cussing at the camera.

    Hmmm... see what happens when I read your hard work? I start talking a lot. Not that I like talking a lot, but thank you for taking the time to write this. Was a good read.

  8. Addendum:

    I mentioned a scene on the forum from the chapter where Marina talks with her father about his legal issues and there is all kinds of Clara hugging, loving, calming her down and along the way, she throws a verbal smack to Vanessa. Vanessa says that children are traumatized about waiting too long. Clara asked if that's what happened to her. I wonder if Vanessa's clinginess boils down to something like that. She sure shut up, hearing that one.


What do you think?